She Wanted to Make More Money — Here's How She Negotiated.

Tips for doing it right.

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I’ve been negotiating my own contracts for over 30 years — except for a three-year stint when I had an agent. He did me no favors. (Lesson learned: Agents have many clients and many responsibilities; I have one client and I work my tuchus off for her.)

No one ever trained me how to ask for money, and it’s not something that comes naturally to me.

But I’ve learned how to do it, and I share a few tips at the end of this article.

I’ve also learned that I’m not the only woman who struggles with salary negotiations. Even smart women struggle, women who know finance. CBS News reported on a survey by the Forté Foundation that shows women with MBAs make $11,000 less on average right out of grad school than their male peers do. What’s worse, that gap doesn’t narrow over time, it grows to $60,000 in ten years.

I plan to occasionally write about this on Wells Street because I think we need to have honest and vulnerable conversations about how to ask for money, and admit that we don’t always do it well.

Cecilia Owens knows what I’m talking about. She has an MBA, and she’s currently Chief Financial Officer (CFO) and Chief Operating Officer (COO) at Grandview, a talent management company in Los Angeles. She’s also a part-time CFO for a small advertising firm called Rogue Planet, and she sits on the board of the EmpowHer Institute, a nonprofit.

When she landed her first CFO job several years ago, she discovered she was being paid 40% less than the person she replaced.

“It hurt.”

She vowed that would never happen again.

But it did happen again.

Now she’s really not ever letting it happen again.

STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON

Cecilia grew up in Compton, California. “I didn’t have much visibility as to what my professional options were.”

Her father died when she was very young, and her mother worked in customer service. “Literally all I had was ‘The Cosby Show,’” she laughs before adding, “I know that’s not the best thing right now.”

Cecilia thought she might become a lawyer, just like Clair Huxtable on the show, until a family friend said, “You’re too honest to be a lawyer.” The friend suggested she become an accountant, because Cecilia was good with numbers. “I was 16 and applying to colleges and I had no idea what an accountant was, but it sounded okay.”

She got accepted to Loyola Marymount as an accounting major and discovered it was a perfect fit. “It was just one of those things where I could not imagine myself studying anything else.”

After graduating, Cecilia went to work for a bank, and that’s where she met her first Chief Financial Officer. “I remember saying, ‘I want to be a CFO.’”

“YOU’RE NOT GOING TO GET THAT.”

After a while at the bank, Cecilia decided to move up. She talked to two recruiters, both women, from a very large and reputable company.

“I remember saying to them, ‘This [salary] is what I need in order to leave the bank, and this is why.’” The women told her, “You’re not going to get that. That’s too big of a jump.”

Really?

Cecilia was disappointed, and a little angry. So… she started applying to other companies directly, skipping their recruiting departments. DirecTV made her an offer, “and they gave me exactly what I asked for.”

Lesson learned: Maybe you should cut out the middleman and do your own negotiating.

“YOU’RE VERY SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERPAID.”

After DirecTV, Cecilia moved to Fox and her first manager role in finance. “I was so thankful for the opportunity.”

Seven months later she was promoted to division director. “I now had ‘Director’ in my title, and I was just so grateful.”

What she didn’t know was that while she had a great title, she didn’t have a great salary. “I probably wouldn’t have known if it weren’t for a new manager who came in and said, ‘You’re very significantly underpaid, so we’re going to bring you up to market.’”

Lesson learned: Don’t be fooled by titles. They don’t pay the rent. Money does.

“AM I WORTHY OF THAT?”

This brings us to Cecilia’s first CFO job, the one mentioned above, where she discovered she was making 40% less than her predecessor. Granted, the predecessor was being paid above the market average, plus Cecilia didn’t have an MBA yet.

But 40% less? She discovered the discrepancy after she’d been hired and was going through her department’s past finances. “It takes the wind out of you,” she says. “It definitely impacts your motivation.”

Cecilia waited over two years to ask for a raise, until after she’d earned her MBA from USC. “I walked into my boss’s office and I said, ‘This is what I want, and this is what I would like to do for the company,’ and he said, ‘Okay, let’s figure this out.’”

They came to a mutual agreement, but even then, Cecilia did not ask for what her predecessor made. “At that point in my career, I still had that question of, ‘Am I worthy of that?’”

Lesson learned: They wouldn’t hire you if you weren‘t worthy (so they should pay you accordingly).

“WHY DID I HAVE TO DO THAT?”

When Cecilia Owens moved on to her second CFO job, she made it clear to the recruiter that she was not going to be hired for less than her predecessor. (Interesting, both times she replaced a woman.)

She was assured that wouldn’t happen.

And then it happened.

This time she discovered she was making about 30% less. “It was infuriating.”

Cecilia decided to work her tail off for three months and build a case for pay parity. She had the support of the company’s second-in-command, which she called “the wind beneath my wings.”

Once again, she went to her boss and made her case, and the boss replied, “Done.”

Still, “The question I constantly ask is, ‘Why did I have to do that?’ Why wasn’t it a no-brainer that they should pay me the same as they were paying her?”

Lesson learned: Don’t wait to say something if you discover you’re underpaid.

“A BREATH OF FRESH AIR”

Cecilia took her current CFO job earlier this year. She went into negotiations making a case for what she needed to be paid.

The job offer she received had a salary higher than the one she asked for. “It was just a breath of fresh air.”

She says her new bosses went above her ask because they want her to know they’re making an investment in her future.

Lesson learned: Not every negotiation has to be hard.

CECILIA’S ADVICE

First, do not be afraid.

“More than anything throughout the years, I allowed my fear of the conversation to dictate whether or not the conversation would occur.”

Cecilia Owens was afraid to talk about money because she didn’t want to rock the boat or cause any tension. But that fear prevented her from acting sooner, and that cost her money.

“The worst they can say is no, right? That’s not that bad.”

Second, do the math, and don’t make it personal.

As an accountant, Cecilia feels most comfortable around numbers. “I use numbers as a roadmap.” This helps her argue her case during negotiations and avoid getting emotional.

“I want to approach this from a business perspective and from a strategic perspective,” she says dispassionately.

Third, take a moment.

Cecilia is calm by nature — “I think I get that from my father” — but there are times when negotiations get heated, and when that happens, “If I need a moment, I ask for a moment… sometimes we forget we can do that.”

She says hitting pause, whether it’s for a few minutes or overnight, will lead to better results than trying to power through a tough conversation when you’re angry or upset. “Take a moment, and people will respect you for that.”

Also, as a side note, stop apologizing. “Women over-apologize,” Cecilia says. She’s even noticed it with Zoom interruptions during Covid. “When men speak over other people, there is never an apology issued,” she says, “whereas when women do it, it’s a very quick, ‘Oh, I’m sorry.’”

Cecilia has tried to replace “I’m sorry” with “thank you.” Like, “Thank you for letting me speak,” when accidentally interrupting someone. If she’s a minute late to a meeting, she says, “Thank you for your patience,” instead of “Sorry I’m late.”

JANE’S HELPFUL HINTS

I recently did a Facebook live video going over my own tips for negotiating, lessons I've learned from many transactions.

Here’s a summary.

#1 — RAISE YOUR HAND.

Your boss is never going to notice how hard you’re working.

Your boss is busy.

That’s why you need to raise your hand and call attention to your work.

Therese Tucker is a friend and founder of Blackline, a software company with a stock market value of over $7 billion. Before we became friends, I interviewed her for CNBC, and we talked about the pay gap. (Omg, use this link, and 1:00 in, check out the blouse I wore in my standup during our 2018 interview, what the...).

“I’ve had women who, when they’ve been promoted, have said, ‘Oh, no, that’s okay, I make enough,’” Therese told me. “I think this is much of how the pay gap comes about.”

She gave me a generic scenario of what sometimes happens.

She’ll hire two people for the same type of job; one male, one female. We’ll call them Joe and Jane.

Not long after being hired, Joe starts regularly popping into Therese's office to tell her how great he’s doing and how he already deserves a raise. She’ll laugh and say, “Get back to work.”

Jane, meanwhile, quietly works at least as hard as Joe does, but she never toots her own horn. “Surely my hard work will get noticed!” she thinks.

It’s doesn’t get noticed. Therese is busy. She has a company to run.

At the end of the year, when it’s time to hand out bonuses, raises and promotions, Therese is well aware of what Joe has accomplished. She may not know Jane even exists.

So speak up.

#2 — LET THEM COME UP WITH A NUMBER.

When someone asks, “What kind of salary are you looking for?” I often reply, “What do you think is fair?”

A few times the salary offered is higher than the number in my head. What a nice surprise!

#3 — DO YOUR RESEARCH.

Americans don’t like to ask each other about money. We feel awkward talking about it.

Get comfortable talking about it.

Find out how much your peers are making. You could gently but directly ask them, “I’m trying to figure out what I should be making, could you give me some idea of what you’re making?” Or ask a friend who does a similar job at another company. Or look on Glassdoor for comparable salaries.

#4 — SHUT UP.

This is one of my favorite tips. After you say what you think you should be paid and why… shut up.

Like, “I think a fair salary is (fill in the blank) because I’ve proven myself by doing x, y, and z.”

Keep it short and sweet and confident, and then... shut up.

Don’t fill the ensuing awkward silence with some comment which destroys your entire argument — like, “Of course, everything’s negotiable.”

Just. Shut. Up.

In fact, practice saying your brief statement out loud, with confidence, and get used to hearing nothing afterwards.

Embrace the awkward silence.

Let the person on the other side break it.

It can be very powerful.

#5 — IT’S JUST BUSINESS, IT’S NOT PERSONAL.

This echoes what Cecilia said earlier, but from a different perspective.

You may be all business, but suddenly your boss makes everything personal, expressing disappointment or hurt that you’re demanding a salary commensurate with your worth. But it is not personal, and your boss probably knows that. It’s probably even part of his/her/their negotiating strategy.

So keep your game face on. This is business.

#6 — RESPECT > BEING LIKED.

Women are sometimes held to a different standard when being ambitious. Also, too often, we just want to be liked.

Being respected is better than being liked. It’s great to be both, but don’t let your desire to be pleasant screw you out of being paid what you deserve!

I remember a very famous female news anchor who commanded the highest salary at the network. Other anchors resented her for making so much. I don’t think they would’ve been as bothered if she was a guy, but she didn’t care. I didn’t really like her that much, but I totally respected her. And you know what? Because she made so much, she raised the bar for the rest of us.

#7 — THINK LIKE THIS GUY.

This is a weird thing to say in 2021, but some women still need to hear it.

When you go to negotiate, pretend you’re the cockiest guy you ever met. Maybe it’s the high school football hero, or the most popular frat bro, or this guy:

Credit: Simon Potter/Getty Images

We all know “that guy.” He walks into a room with so much confidence that people fall silent. Crowds part to let him through. He’s always having his “best year ever.”

We hate him, and hey, he may not even be real, but when you’re asking for money, pretend you’re him.

Exude confidence. Act like you’ve been there before. Fake it ‘til you make it. You’ll be surprised what happens.

Cover image: Getty Images

What tips do you have? Leave a comment or email jane@janewells.com. And follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Now go out there and get a raise!